Curse

Curse You · Aug 19, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Jade quarry has not been changed in months. The last change that was made to it was to alter the rewards. This hasn't been much of an issue because hardly anyone ever could get a game to start.

Now that there are people, I'm seeing numerous bugs and glitches that destroy the gameplay.

Corpse Teleportation Exploit
This is when the team kills some NPCs near the base, and a necromancer uses Necrotic Transversal or Consume Corpse to exit the base prematurely.

This could be fixed in several ways; make the NPCs invunerable, move the NPCs, "blackout" all players until the game starts. All three of these ideas would prevent expoitation. The best is of course the first one, as well as the easiest.
EDIT: Fourth idea; make the NPCs spawn a few seconds after the match begins.

Quarries have no healing
This isn't so much a glitch or bug as it is just bad planning. As single ranger with the Elite Barrage is able to kill the entire quarry without taking any damage. They just sit up on the cliff and shoot away.

This could be fixed by simply adding a SINGLE NPC monk to each Quarry. This way, the ranger would also have to use interupts to prevent the monk from being effective.

Jade Carriers
The quarries will spawn a Jade carrier (Turtle or Juggernaught) and they will proceed to transport jade. However, when the Quarry is claimed by the opposing side, they will return to the corresponding base. When the quarry is reclaimed, the carrier will then have to walk all the way to the mine, then back to claim the jade. This causes them to take twice as long.

This could be fixed by "teleporting" the carrier to the Quarry when it is reclaimed. It may be odd, but then again, they do appear out of nowhere at the start.

This is all the strange happenings I have personally noticed while fighting today and yesterday. Please add anymore that you notice.

UPDATE: Found these on another thread.

Jade Carriers getting stuck
I have heard of the Jade carriers sometimes getting stuck, and so they cannot continue to collect Jade.

Simply redo the pathing, also consider my previous idea.

Sites too easy to claim
The Quarries and Guard posts seem rather easy to take over. You just have to kill all the NPCs, and it's yours.

This could be fixed by making the posts captured in a similar way to the ones in Alliance Battles. This way, only if you out number them, you can keep/take the outpost.

Arcador · Aug 19, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Cool thread. I will help with ideas.

-about the Corpse exploit - making all near guard posts to spawn after the timer counts down. Or make them invulnarable as the op suggested.

-I agree the npc die too easly by some builds, but maybe that is the point. A trio of ragers can quite easily swipe down a single unprotected char. I also agree for a monk at the quarries (but not the guard posts).

-Well...it might be taken as part of the strategy. Maybe if the mine is enemy, the carrier must return to the base and stay there?

-I also have another suggestion. Make taking the mines take at leas 3-5 secs, just like the Alliance battles maps (but a lot shorter). RIght now when the last npc dies, the new one begin their spike immediatelly. Or if not making it 3-5 secs delay, at least make it for the player to at least MOVE into the quarry or post to take it. Right now it is very annoying - you stay in the middle of the camp and FLASH, you got 3 penetrating and 3 lightnings on your head.

Terra Xin · Aug 19, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Yeah you're right that corpse exploit has been around for ages. The suggestion would work like shadow stepping, you can only shadow step if there are no physical obstacles on the ground, such as a closed gate...

Curse You · Aug 20, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Yeah you're right that corpse exploit has been around for ages. The suggestion would work like shadow stepping, you can only shadow step if there are no physical obstacles on the ground, such as a closed gate...

See that's what I DON'T want. Necromacers are currently the only class that can actually Teleport themselves, I want it to stay that way until a new skill comes along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcador

-Well...it might be taken as part of the strategy. Maybe if the mine is enemy, the carrier must return to the base and stay there?

I think that if my sugestion happened with both sides, always, then it would in fact be even, because both sides would have it.

Curse You · Aug 20, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

No further feedback? I quess most people who might like the ideas are busy with the event.

I really hope that someone from ArenaNet has read this and considered these ideas, rather than just changing the two skills.

Arcador · Aug 20, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Offtopic : if it was rant flaming theme, I bet it would be 12 pages already. The more reasonable one topic is the less people will post.

Ontopic: I think so far you adressed all issues, and now lets hope Anet will see them

Cymmina · Aug 20, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Like everyone else, you seem to think that Quarry never gets played because you didn't play there until this weekend. Before this event, I've probably made close to 100k faction from Quarry alone. There's few people that can claim they're more experienced with this mission than me.

The only *real* problem with Quarry is the carriers getting stuck, and I've seen it happen more often than I'd like to. It's something that seems to happen when control of the quarries is changing frequently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Corpse Teleportation Exploit
This is when the team kills some NPCs near the base, and a necromancer uses Necrotic Transversal or Consume Corpse to exit the base prematurely.

This could be fixed in several ways; make the NPCs invunerable, move the NPCs, "blackout" all players until the game starts. All three of these ideas would prevent expoitation. The best is of course the first one, as well as the easiest.
EDIT: Fourth idea; make the NPCs spawn a few seconds after the match begins.

As I've stated in another thread, this is not as big of a problem as you think it is. Quarries are so easy to take over, the minor advantage this provides is insignificant. You could easily make up for the time you've lost by not capping early by buffing your carriers with Windborne Speed/"Charge!".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Quarries have no healing
This isn't so much a glitch or bug as it is just bad planning. As single ranger with the Elite Barrage is able to kill the entire quarry without taking any damage. They just sit up on the cliff and shoot away.

This could be fixed by simply adding a SINGLE NPC monk to each Quarry. This way, the ranger would also have to use interrupts to prevent the monk from being effective.

It's rare to see Barrage rangers here without interrupts, (what other skills are you going to take outside of a snare, heal, speed boost, and defensive stance?). Even if you did add a monk, it would take 5 seconds to kill the guys instead of 3 because it's not that hard to out damage an NPC monk that's not sure which of his 4 other buddies to keep healed.

Besides, rangers are the least of your worries. A maxed out ele with Meteor Shower can single handedly kill all but the ranger with just 1 spell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Sites too easy to claim
The Quarries and Guard posts seem rather easy to take over. You just have to kill all the NPCs, and it's yours.

This could be fixed by making the posts captured in a similar way to the ones in Alliance Battles. This way, only if you out number them, you can keep/take the outpost.

If you out number them, how is it that you weren't able to stop them from claiming the quarry? If people wanted AB, they'd just go play AB. Simple truth is, teams that are constantly losing control of the quarries they hold are unwilling to put forth the effort to *guard* them... they'd rather run off and chase the other team instead of ensure they can keep getting points. Or you've got dumb warrior syndrome where the warriors rush to meet and beat on each other, oblivious to the elementalists or other ranged players taking out the NPCs.

unholy guardian · Aug 20, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Jade quarry seems quite right without the bugs. They don't really need monks at the points, i mean they serve their purpose.

Curse You · Aug 20, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

Like everyone else, you seem to think that Quarry never gets played because you didn't play there until this weekend. Before this event, I've probably made close to 100k faction from Quarry alone. There's few people that can claim they're more experienced with this mission than me.

The only *real* problem with Quarry is the carriers getting stuck, and I've seen it happen more often than I'd like to. It's something that seems to happen when control of the quarries is changing frequently.

If you've played Quarry so much, how come you never noticed some of these issues? Like many people who play things in excess, you may have just gotten caught up it the way it is, and don't want it changed, maybe.
I have already included the pathing issues in an edit, so at least that's in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

As I've stated in another thread, this is not as big of a problem as you think it is. Quarries are so easy to take over, the minor advantage this provides is insignificant. You could easily make up for the time you've lost by not capping early by buffing your carriers with Windborne Speed/"Charge!".

Useless or no, this is still and exploit. It lets you have at least 2 people running around 30 seconds before the game has even started, that shouldn't happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

It's rare to see Barrage rangers here without interrupts, (what other skills are you going to take outside of a snare, heal, speed boost, and defensive stance?). Even if you did add a monk, it would take 5 seconds to kill the guys instead of 3 because it's not that hard to out damage an NPC monk that's not sure which of his 4 other buddies to keep healed.

Besides, rangers are the least of your worries. A maxed out ele with Meteor Shower can single handedly kill all but the ranger with just 1 spell.

The problem I see is that a Mo/Me with a Longbow can, at the moment, just sit up on a cliff and (very) slowly kill off all the NPCs. You don't even need interupts to kill these guys, who are supposed to be defending one of the most precious things in the game. Even if the monk wouldn't keep them up much longer if it was a ranger, it can at least stop people from being able to just wipe the quarries with a wand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

If you out number them, how is it that you weren't able to stop them from claiming the quarry? If people wanted AB, they'd just go play AB. Simple truth is, teams that are constantly losing control of the quarries they hold are unwilling to put forth the effort to *guard* them... they'd rather run off and chase the other team instead of ensure they can keep getting points. Or you've got dumb warrior syndrome where the warriors rush to meet and beat on each other, oblivious to the elementalists or other ranged players taking out the NPCs.

I have at times been fighting, and all of a sudden, the base right next to me changes hands, all because some guy killed all the NPCs. This just seems a little unfair. They should at least have to touch the base in order to claim it.